shud the quota system be based on caste or economic grounds?

reservation of seats in governmental services and education is based on the minority n caste system...
but taking in consideration the present times we see that many students (n that too at times ..evn less deserving ones) despite coming from affluent background can avail of the quota system while a general candidate despite his/her brilliance cannot afford proper educational facilities due to this financial condition. the reservation of seats under the quota system (if it has too exist ie!) cud help such candidates bt does not.... simply becoz it is based on the grounds of caste system ....
so do u think caste of a student shud be the deciding factor wen reserving seats or the economic status of a candidate?

Definitely economic status. Those days are long gone when economic status was directly related to your caste. Today we have a category of SCs and STs who are the cream of society. They are 2-3 generations who have utilized the reservations and today are firmly equal to us. Isn't it time to give the power a chance? They have already come to the general status and can readily compete with us. Yet what about people who cannot afford the IITs and IIMs? I can remember instances that happened this year during the admission season. This very meritorious boy from the villages got through medical but couldn't afford it because he was a brahmin and couldn't apply for the scholarships for the minorities.

Its weird...at the beginning the Brahmins dominated...now the SC(s)n the ST(s) r the priviledged ones...certainly this was not what B.R.Ambedkar n the orther makerse of the constitution intended when they introduced the quota system...right?

I think quota system was made because at that time lower caste people were deprived from everything and people from lower caste represented a section of people who are uneducated and living below poverty line but the scenario is changed now.At this point of time quota system should be made for people living below poverty line because most of the people from lower caste r educated and well established now.It's time to give this privilege to those peolpe who really deserve it and not to them who are financially strong but are taking advantage of their title or caste.Our aim is to make all the indians educated and as a social responsibilty to help students make their career who are bright and will help to make INDIA the world's most powerful country.

According to me, we can't think of a sole crieteria to give out reservations....we being indians can't close our eyes to the fact that castes do exist, and not just exist but dominate too!! Again, economic backgrounds do matter and the economic status of a person well defines the kind of education he/she may have previously received....

BUT...do you think these are the only two factors???

How can we forget GENDER in a country like ours where women are still looked down upon....the women reservation bill is still in cold storage...so shouldn't the women be given quotas too so that their position in the country can be improved?

Again the fact that the student is a first generation learner or not makes a huge difference!! Don't you think incentives should be given to illiterate families to induce their children to go to schools...

Again, in a country like india where REGIONAL DISPARITIES are increasing day by day, where the standard of education imparted is not uniform, the kind of formative schooling received is also an important factor while deciding about who to give quota to...

Lastly, having done a lot of research on the issue, and also being a member of one of the first anti-quota groups, i have come across people who today think that being a mertitorious student is a crime...i mean how can we forget merit...a student's hard work defines him/her and hence should obviously be the first and foremost crieteria...since this quota debate has started, merit has sort of become a slang...which should not be the case...merit is the only crieteria that is actually in the student's hand only, and is not something he/she is born with, and hence should also be taken into consideration!!!

according to me it shud b purely based on economic grounds as people who own bunglows are under sc quota,which is unfair on the part who really need to take the advantage of this quota system,so i shud strongly stand dat it shud b on economic grounds

defntly economic grounds.....have seen people getting into iits nd iims thru quota while their fathers r doctors nd engineers.....that suks really........while we get 2 read about so many deserving students clearing the entrance xams but being unable 2 study plainly due 2 lack of funds.

well y shud we have reservation based on gender status? women want to be treated equally as men den maybe we shud do away wid dis gender divide in all spheres....y create this difference in da first place?

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well y shud we have reservation based on gender status? women want to be treated equally as men den maybe we shud do away wid dis gender divide in all spheres....y create this difference in da first place?

am not saying that we should have quotas per se for the females...but since we are not looking at completely giving up quotas (we actually can't at this stage), then it is better to give quotas to who rightfully deserve them (if we are soo keen on upliftment of teh backward tht is..)....no doubt that women want to be treated equally as men, but since the indian society most of the times doesn't allow that, we can have quotas just to provide the society with an incentive to not look down upon women....

we are not creating a divide by giving out quotas to women (mind you i am not talking of women of upper castes or middle or higher income status), but in fact trying to lessen the divide thst exists between teh men and women today...men definitely have an upper hand when it comes to povision of primary education...if quotas provide the deserving girl child with education, i am in for it for sure!! BUT..they defintiely should be regressive in nature, and phased out when the girl child is strong enough to make a living on her own!

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we are not creating a divide by giving out
quotas to women (mind you i am not talking of women of upper castes or
middle or higher income status), but in fact trying to lessen the
divide thst exists between teh men and women today...men definitely
have an upper hand when it comes to povision of primary education...if
quotas provide the deserving girl child with education, i am in for it
for sure!! BUT..they defintiely should be regressive in nature, and
phased out when the girl child is strong enough to make a living on her
own!

hmmm...it is true that men even today have more access to primary
education that women (specially in rural india), but can we curb this
problem by making quotas for the women???? Being a girl myself, I'd
rather want to prove my abilities and stand shoulder to shoulder with
men without the protection of the quota!!!! women need to be
independent! and by creating quotas for them, they'l actually become
dependent on them and their actual potential will not flower like it
actually should do....

ohhk, u may argue that many women are not provided with the
opportunities....and hence they do not get the platform to
perform!...but then aren't situations like these that bring in a
reform???...the mindset of the people can only change if women come
forward and prove that they are undettered...so I dont think there
should be any reservations for women....creating quotas will only mean
that we are feeble and need support to come at par with men!



ohhk...as far as the main topic goes - quotas on caste or economic
status??...According to me, though, economic staus looks like a better
option....however with corruption, red tapism etc..on a rise in the
country, how can one expect a fare play when iot comes to determining
the "economic status" of thepeople...specially the bussiness men, who
are adept at earning lots and showing on paper that they'r in the
middle income gropus....take for example the Amitabh Bachchan case...he
has acres of land under his possession...and how does he get
it?...simple...by projecting himself as a"farmer"!!!

If caste is not a good criteria for quotas, neither can be economic status till corruption and bribery are eradicated!

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we are not creating a divide by giving out
quotas to women (mind you i am not talking of women of upper castes or
middle or higher income status), but in fact trying to lessen the
divide thst exists between teh men and women today...men definitely
have an upper hand when it comes to povision of primary education...if
quotas provide the deserving girl child with education, i am in for it
for sure!! BUT..they defintiely should be regressive in nature, and
phased out when the girl child is strong enough to make a living on her
own!

hmmm...it is true that men even today have more access to primary
education that women (specially in rural india), but can we curb this
problem by making quotas for the women???? Being a girl myself, I'd
rather want to prove my abilities and stand shoulder to shoulder with
men without the protection of the quota!!!! women need to be
independent! and by creating quotas for them, they'l actually become
dependent on them and their actual potential will not flower like it
actually should do....

ohhk, u may argue that many women are not provided with the
opportunities....and hence they do not get the platform to
perform!...but then aren't situations like these that bring in a
reform???...the mindset of the people can only change if women come
forward and prove that they are undettered...so I dont think there
should be any reservations for women....creating quotas will only mean
that we are feeble and need support to come at par with men!



ohhk...as far as the main topic goes - quotas on caste or economic
status??...According to me, though, economic staus looks like a better
option....however with corruption, red tapism etc..on a rise in the
country, how can one expect a fare play when iot comes to determining
the "economic status" of thepeople...specially the bussiness men, who
are adept at earning lots and showing on paper that they'r in the
middle income gropus....take for example the Amitabh Bachchan case...he
has acres of land under his possession...and how does he get
it?...simple...by projecting himself as a"farmer"!!!

If caste is not a good criteria for quotas, neither can be economic status till corruption and bribery are eradicated!

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Being a girl myself, I'd
rather want to prove my abilities and stand shoulder to shoulder with
men without the protection of the quota!!!!

but how do you think a girl who doesn't even know the meaning of being a girl, or a girl who doesn't even know what abilities mean, or a firl who doesn't even know how strong this men-women divide is will be able to prove herself?? we need to nurture the roots...we need to provide her with basic education to make her self reliant...accept it or not..be practical girl...she has to be nurtured in order to make her aware of her capabilities...since the education system cannot be revolutionised in a day, i am looking upon quota for women as an alternative to give them the base, and certainly not be the easy alternative out....

india is a country full of talented people...great economists and great social activists..am sure we can get together to think of a way out....a system where in we ensure that the basic amenities are provided to a girl without those becoming agents of dependance for women!!

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If caste is not a good criteria for quotas, neither can be economic status till corruption and bribery are eradicated!

let's not be overoptimistic here yaar...we soo cannot change corruption in one day....so why not improve upon what's in our hands...quotas if implemented in teh right way do make a tremendous difference....Tamil NAdu is a brilliant example...we just have to figure out the right way out...and the right measures that we need to take into account while imparting quotas...

I believe that quota system in implementation can never be worked out by the government, so we should switch over to a more workable model, that is, the affirmitive action policy, where scholarships and financial help shall be provided to those needed to be able to compete with others, rather than just promoting inefficiency.

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but how do you think a girl who doesn't even
know the meaning of being a girl, or a girl who doesn't even know what
abilities mean, or a firl who doesn't even know how strong this
men-women divide is will be able to prove herself?? we need to nurture
the roots...we need to provide her with basic education to make her
self reliant...accept it or not..be practical girl...she has to be
nurtured in order to make her aware of her capabilities...since the
education system cannot be revolutionised in a day, i am looking upon
quota for women as an alternative to give them the base, and certainly
not be the easy alternative out....

Ya okay...i agree with u on the point that "the education system cant
be revolutionalized in a day!"....thats obvious....and u also say that
quotas should be for those girls who aren't provided with the platform
to do what they are able of...to show the world that they aren't less
than anyvody else....BUT then how do u implement the quotas for "just
those" women???? Dont you think everybody will pounce on the seats
given to them...all the women (any category...) will want to acquire
those seats which are being available to them so easily????....

And then I would also want to ask...if they aren't being provided with
the opporunities (whether due to social restrictions or financial
concerns), will they still be allowed by the society...to join the
Premier Institutes which they want to join??? But yes, u may say that
"every single step counts...no matter how small it is"! and i agree
with this point....and hence quotas can be for the women, but we need
to look into everything....

Say for example if we talk about the proposal of 33% reservations for
women in the parliament,....is it right in offering women these seats
through the quota....after all India is a democratic country...the
government is for the people, by the people and of the people....so the
entry to parliament should not be on a quota basis, rather it should be
like what it is .....people select their representatives....whether one
be a male or female...it doesnt matter....what matters is whether one
is capable of serving the nation...being a good politician!

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Ya okay...i agree with u on the point that "the education system cant
be revolutionalized in a day!"....thats obvious....and u also say that
quotas should be for those girls who aren't provided with the platform
to do what they are able of...to show the world that they aren't less
than anyvody else....BUT then how do u implement the quotas for "just
those" women???? Dont you think everybody will pounce on the seats
given to them...all the women (any category...) will want to acquire
those seats which are being available to them so easily????....

okay...i did not want to mention this here, as someone might blame me of advertising my organization's propoganda here, but i think i see a sensible lot replying to this discussion, and am expecting that the suggestion that follows will be appreciated...

i am associated with this student organization at DU called "United Students" - we started with the reservation issue only, and hence most of us have kind of done a P.H.D on teh issue..hehe...well on the serious note, as arjun commented that we should be looking at affirmative action and not quotas...me and my organization (which arjun is also a part of) totally agrees witht his point, and has hence even come up with a "more workable model" - MIRAA Model (Multiple Index Related Affirmative Action). This model, as proposed by Mr. Purshottam Agrawal is an extension of a model which was followed a while back at JNU in Delhi.

MIRAA awards points to applicants on the basis of their sex, caste, economic background, regional disparities, educational imbalances and their status of being a first generation learner. A scheme like this takes care of all the major factors of exclusion working in Indian society without compromising on the basic qualifications for pursuing a higher degree.
Let me explain how this system will work. There will be no pre-fixed quotas. MIRAA will be operative on hundred per cent of the available seats for education or employment. Suppose there is a 100-mark scale for entry to a college/organisation. These 100 marks can be distributed amongst entrance test, interview and academic performance as per the wishes of the institution in question. First and foremost, all candidates would be ranked on this hundred mark scale, depending on their performance in the entrance test, interview, etc. Then MIRAA would be applied and each candidate, irrespective of caste, can potentially benefit from it due to the different indices which make up the system. The maximum points a person can get under MIRAA are 30 and the minimum is zero. Now the candidate’s MIRAA subscore is added to the score s/he achieved in the admission process described above. This will be the total score. The candidates whose total score clears the cut-off for a particular subject/job will then be offered the position.

Hence this system does take into account both the qualification of the individual as well as the demands of social and economic justice. Unlike the quota/percentage system, which confines the social justice mechanism only to a fraction of the available vacancies, MIRAA brings each and every seat under the ambit of social and economic justice.


In case you want to read teh full proposal, you can log on to www.unitedstudents.in

I hope this model answers ur question of how "just these" women....

yepp! I think it does...it a verry good model...much better than the
quota system which has proven to be a failure....doing more to increase
the frustration among the general category...rather than actually
helping those in need....Kudos to United Students...!!! Commendable
job! However one will have to read more inorder to understand more
clearly how it will work....

yea...it does have some flaws regarding the initial points that a student has....JNU has entrance exams and hence it becomes easier to get everyone on the same scale, while in institutions like DU, it becomes a little problematic...we are tryign to look for a solution and i hope to crack it soon....anyways thanx for teh appreciation....read through the whole proposal and do give in sugeestions and comments..it'll ne wonderful...

definatly on economic grounds....y shud some1s candidature will b preferable simply coz he\she is frm an SC\ST\OBC casted family.for higher education this quota system shud b banned coz many talented students do not get chance to enter good institutions..whre on thew odr hand sum not so good students (nd who might be frm sum affluent family)
get there admission in those institutes.
this really sux....
i mean if v hav to do this quota system...then y not start this damn thing frm the primary level,on the basis of economic conditions of their family???

i wil try to be very honest.there is no point debating among ourselves whether it shud be on economic grounds or not....that point is already emphasized in everyones post...but but...if there is someone who thinks otherwise please present your case and lets have a healthy discussion on this....otherwise we are getting nowhere as we all seem to not believe in the quota system on the basis of caste....
@nikhita...you guys r doing somethin really worthwhile...appreciate it...

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@nikhita...you guys r doing somethin really worthwhile...appreciate it...

thanx adi...i hope we really can put across our point to more and more people...

law should not be abused by the politicians for their own motive....................