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 Women provoke men!!!!

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Ritwik

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PostSubject: Re: Women provoke men!!!!   Mon Jul 16, 2007 10:58 pm

Sahil wrote:
well riju, your comments soo dont make sense and u still keep commenting...as in get a life dude...wassup with these nonsensical posts?...try n make some sense at least...fer heavens sake...


What was nonsensical about that post ?
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Sahil

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PostSubject: Re: Women provoke men!!!!   Tue Jul 17, 2007 12:02 am

Ritwik wrote:
Sahil wrote:
well riju, your comments soo dont make sense and u still keep commenting...as in get a life dude...wassup with these nonsensical posts?...try n make some sense at least...fer heavens sake...


What was nonsensical about that post ?

well, i was just trying to see if riju gets provoked or not by my comment...so do u mind deletin yer post? n il delete mine...
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adi

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PostSubject: Re: Women provoke men!!!!   Tue Jul 17, 2007 11:35 am

@riju
my friend i must say i thought my post was excessively long but ur one is the clear winner.i must say you are so broadminded that ur logic gets scattered big time.you have so many quintessential 21st century opinions but the reality is that most rape cases are takin place in villages n half of them n not even reported.your outlook may be "modern" but can u impart that logic to a rickshaw walla ????you need a reality check abt the indian scene.ur example abt the fat africAN LADY WAS LIKE A SIDDHUISM.NONSENSICAL!!!!
and abt rite n wrong kind of attention that i had stated since you found it to be like a songu obviously did not get the logic.to do that why don you try wearing a revealing dress(only women don wear them!!) n walk in to a gay bar...(assumin by ur name u r a guy)then u wil come to know what undesirable attention is!!
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Riju

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PostSubject: Re: Women provoke men!!!!   Tue Jul 17, 2007 5:33 pm

to adi:
i am sorry but is this is a competetion abt the length of the posts??
stressing on the point that controlling the type of clothes women should wear ill never ever prove to be a solution to the rape acts, this is my stand in case u missed....
"most rape cases are takin place in villages n half of them n not even reported."...
err.. i know that... FYI. thats why i mention the rape taking place prisons and home in iran which is LEGAL THERE... and thus making it clear that there are many many similar cases here in india also, which are not reported. so do u assume that women in those homes wear "revealing dresses " to "get attention".. ??
seriously adi, after reading my post, what point are you trying to refute
please tell me what do think i am trying to tell you... cause i think u got a wrong idea about my views...
and that song thing... i must apologise... i wrote it in a strong flow..... i am truly sorry for that... reading it agian it surely
looks rude, i dnt mean it to be....
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Riju

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PostSubject: Re: Women provoke men!!!!   Tue Jul 17, 2007 5:55 pm

returning to the attention thing.. i think that i did mention that we
cannot control the type of attention we get.... so wht r u trying to
prove to me???

i am a girl by the way... (if u can see the sign under my name in this forum.......)

and again abt my example, if u think it is "NONSENSICAL"... KINDLY explain it to me in wht way.....

my point is the way we define "beauty"... thinking about it deeply, i
am introducing the conventionaly defined "beauty" here... that how we rate it ... but i guess that is too broad minded, isnt it??

giving me personal remarks by commenting on the length of my post, and my examples...... is failing to put thru ur views...


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Riju

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PostSubject: Re: Women provoke men!!!!   Tue Jul 17, 2007 6:00 pm

to sahil:
when i say about provoking, i mean it in purely sexual way... in this context.
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nachiket

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PostSubject: Re: Women provoke men!!!!   Tue Jul 17, 2007 7:58 pm

I don't think anyone here will say that women wearing, say a mini-skirt or a tube top, 'provokes' men. These are just excuses used to defend rape and I have no idea who came up with them in the first place. As someone has already mentioned, most rapes take place in villages where most of the women are dressed in sarees or a salwar kameez, so how does that lead to any kind of provocation then?

I haven't really bothered to read all of the posts so I'm sorry if I'm repeating what someone else might have said but this is what my view is anways.
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Garima Gupta

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PostSubject: Re: Women provoke men!!!!   Tue Jul 17, 2007 10:39 pm

I agree with Nikhita..also if a woman feels proud of her herself, has a bold body language..i feel that is her choice of her projection of sexuality..and this in no way is an invitation to the men...
to say that women provoke men is, as it has been said above, passing the buck...
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smriti d

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PostSubject: Re: Women provoke men!!!!   Tue Jul 17, 2007 11:48 pm

had d question of provoking bn der den why would women like mukhtaran mai,a pakistani,burkha clad woman, get gang-raped by her neighbouring village politicla goons?
its not jus provoking sumtimes the intentions are to solely break a woman down,physically and emotionally.
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adi

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PostSubject: Re: Women provoke men!!!!   Wed Jul 18, 2007 10:14 pm

@riju
i'm sorry i missed ur sign there.judgin by the intensity of ur post i ought to have understood u were a women.
1)1st i wud like to apologize for any personal remark. i thought it was harmless but nevetheless...

2)secondly i am a guy and i no how the psyche of some guys works.that is y i pointed at the attention factor.i have seen some sick guys assume a girl is easy prey after seein her attire.sick mentalility but i thought mentionin it will help women understand that the facet of expressin ur sexuality n wearin what u like is perfectly alrite but again i'm sorry to state that i wish all men had the dignity to treat u the way u want to be treated.

3) i have never claimed attire is the sole reason for rape cases.i was tryin to suggest ways women in metros can tackle the issue.rape is only done by someone with a underdeveloped n deformed mind n women expectin those ppl to understand what garima has stated.

i have a elder sister who has been livin alone in metro's for 5 yrs n had thought i could address some concerns from what i have heard from her.

obviously our views do not correlate at all hence i wil refrain from any other assertion considerin you ppl seem to have the ammuniton to tackle the problem.

lastly i would like to say that since there is tremendous sufferin in the horrendous crime all women r treatin this as a moral issue.it is one but there is no advocatin morals n expressin ur views against ppl who have no morals n indulge in such acts.we need strict laws,strict implementation.talk abt that aspect.because those guys r still out there....
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Riju

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PostSubject: Re: Women provoke men!!!!   Wed Jul 18, 2007 10:41 pm

"2)secondly i am a guy and i no how the psyche of
some guys works.that is y i pointed at the attention factor.i have seen
some sick guys assume a girl is easy prey after seein her attire.sick
mentalility but i thought mentionin it will help women understand that
the facet of expressin ur sexuality n wearin what u like is perfectly
alrite but again i'm sorry to state that i wish all men had the dignity
to treat u the way u want to be treated."


i agree to every word of it, adi, every word of it...

and that is precisely why i shall introduce a bitter truth.

when a boy is born to a family where women are treated with respect and
dignity, he learns a lot, a lot from it. and in that way he is
complelty sensitive to that issue of physical exploitation of women.

but home is not where he is going to remain all his life, and every other family is not like his. when he goes out, when he socialise and the kind of environment he enters might be of a contrary nature. then his facing the crossroads is of high probability. and then the choice is his alone. thus speaking of pysche of boys, we cannot ignore that "pysche", is nothing but the way mind works , and the way mind works is a influenced a lot by the THE PLACE MIND STAYS IN, THE COMPANY MIND SOCIALISES WITH. be it a metropolital or a rural periphery.
i am pretty sure that being a boy u would know better about this stuff which is very convienently rated as "boys talk", and i would assume that u wld be able draw the line when this suff gets derogatory and vulgar.
i truly believe that when it comes to the empowerment of women, then the "development of men's phyche" is a
neccessary conditon for it.
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amrit_jmi

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PostSubject: Re: Women provoke men!!!!   Wed Jul 18, 2007 11:06 pm

Pragya wrote:
well..thats very nice guys..well vaibhava..now i agree with u..chalo thats the only topic as of now..hehehe...

Well to some extent frustation and jealousy provoke an MCP (male chauvinist pig) to pounce on woman..I think rapists should be publically castrated.

hehe pragya for a first i completely agree with you!! in fact i too often think that public castration is perfect...altho i am also tempted by the thought of a chopped u-noe-what...sorry for the imagery
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amrit_jmi

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PostSubject: Re: Women provoke men!!!!   Wed Jul 18, 2007 11:10 pm

Ritwik wrote:
Pragya wrote:
well..thats very nice guys..well vaibhava..now i agree with u..chalo thats the only topic as of now..hehehe...

Well to some extent frustation and jealousy provoke an MCP (male chauvinist pig) to pounce on woman..I think rapists should be publically castrated.


Kurt Cobain had said "rape is one of the most terrible crimes on Earth" and I totally agree with him because its one of the worst possible ways of aggressing against a person's individual space and liberty.

But I still ask: just why should rapists be publicly castrated? I think that howsoever terrible the crime, civilized society must never descend to the level of berbers and savages. What would the castration of rapists achieve? Will it ensure that rapes wouldn't occur in future? If one were to believe the opinion in this thread that rape is the outcome of a "sick" mind, then surely public castration or not, rapes would still continue to occur because a sick mind cannot be expected to think through matters rationally.

hmm ritwik that is an interesting thought...but i do not think castration was suggested as a means to reduce rapes....it is meant as a pure and brutal punishment...i do not mind (and i hope pragya wud agree here) lowering myself to the level of a savage when dealing with a rapist...if that makes me uncivilised so be it....the worst crime deserves the worst punishment...let us b civilised once the punishment is served...
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amrit_jmi

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PostSubject: Re: Women provoke men!!!!   Wed Jul 18, 2007 11:13 pm

abhinavverma wrote:
hey. i agree with u guys that rape is a
crime and women cant be held responsible for it. however, i wld like ur
comments on the statistic brandied abt by most supporters of the hijab that countries
like iran have considerably lower instances of rape and molestation than say
usa or uk. There are a million counters but which one comes to ur mind?

abhinav ur argument only serves to stir things up a bit....bt please ask urself..in a place where women are constantly subjugated by men how many rapes would actually b reported? how many rapists would end up being convicted? how would the line be drawn in a place where a woman is considered such a private property of her husband that other men cannot see her? what would the difference between marital intercourse and marital rape be? moreover do not forget that in the (reported) few cases of rape in countries like iran the punishment is swift and brutal....perhaps that serves as a lesson to future would-be offenders?
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Catty

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PostSubject: Re: Women provoke men!!!!   Thu Jul 19, 2007 12:09 am

as far as IM concerned, a potential raper is gonna find ANY kind of attire "provocative", be it a salwar kameez or a tank top. and as far as the public castration thingy was concerned, i agree wid pragya and amrit_jmi
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mervyn.samuel.george

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PostSubject: Re: Women provoke men!!!!   Fri Jul 20, 2007 12:44 am

'Rape-provoked by women??or men at fault'

I'd willfully initiate emphasizing Gender Politics is being pondered over, but a little more understanding makes it more lucid - "Gender Politics" has monumentally to do with Gender Constructions.

Gender Constructions:
"Toh kya hua agar chot lag gayi?
Rote thodi hain.
Ladkiyaan roti hain.
Tu ladki hai?"
The little boy got hurt, and consolation came in the manner of Relative Superiority over the opposite gender.

The Reason:
Relative Superiority over another individual/party/competitor potentially mitigates self-negativities through a make-believe heirarchy intended to up-lift self-worth by way of deliberate belittlement of the Other, in a defined psychological space, to reach goal.]
Before quoting the needful, I feel the prominence in stating,
a rape has logic which functions obtusely over a psychological domain than a physical one.
And to assert coercively, on an individual, whereupon he/she does not give his/her consent to an issue/action or word, is only subjecting the concerned to a parameter confirmingly not of his/accord, thus counter-attacking his Freewill, best defines 'rape'.

Smritid:
"its not jus provoking sumtimes the intentions are to solely break a woman
down,physically and emotionally." is precisely where my keywords are most conspicuous.

Vaibhava:
"Its all in the mind.../ rape is an act of a sick mind..."

I'll try and gauge certain pointers around the theme of provocation, with

Nikhita:
"girls these days are so hell bent about 'fashion' that they
tend to forget what to wear where....and i am pretty sure that most of us here would
agree to this"

I'd ask Nikhita to correct me if I fail to trace her ideology in presenting this statement, since I'm substantiating my idea along it.
"fashion" and "what to wear where" correspond each other if we are discussing this issue in terms of Relevance of clothing at and around religious and cultural sites and sentiments.
I choose to remain dormant at the by-product of this debate regarding freedom to wear one's mind, since my points have already been put across effectively by other friends.
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samridhi



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PostSubject: Re: Women provoke men!!!!   Fri Jul 20, 2007 6:17 pm

Riju wrote:
nikhita:

if we spot a tall, sim, , very fair american lady wearing a mini skirt and a
short top with a deep neck, then we would all consider her as "sexy".
but if the very same attire is worn by a fat, huge, black afican lady, then we
all would probably laugh at her.

th place is same, the dress is same but still that american one has 100%
chances of "provoking men"... where as that balck african lady in
being grotesque and ugly.

u may say that both the ladies are not "conscious
about what they are wearing where", but only one is being
"provocative".....



so riju are u trying to say that the white woman should not wear what she is wearing because it is provocative to some people ??
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Riju

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PostSubject: Re: Women provoke men!!!!   Fri Jul 20, 2007 6:43 pm

samridhi:
i am sorry that my post delievered this viewpoint because u got me completely wrong.... where did i mention the "should not wear" concept??
why are you drawing this conclusion from my ideas , specially when i have mentioned that...
wearing same dress by two different ladies will not lead to the same consequances..... one will be very convienently rated as "sexy, and provocative", while the other one may be "unpleasant to eyes"
it does not lie in the clothes, it lies in the perception and the mentality of people....
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samridhi



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PostSubject: Re: Women provoke men!!!!   Fri Jul 20, 2007 6:44 pm

oooo!!! m sorry riju.i misunderstood
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samridhi



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PostSubject: Re: Women provoke men!!!!   Fri Jul 20, 2007 6:45 pm

dil pe mat le yaar
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ma_anshul



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PostSubject: Re: Women provoke men!!!!   Fri Jul 27, 2007 12:24 pm

cmon dats complete bullshit......i mean if u say dat women provoke men by wearing skimpy outfits den hw can u justify rape of 2-3 yr old infants... were dey wearing bikinis..... rape is coz of a sick mind dats it
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smriti d

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PostSubject: Re: Women provoke men!!!!   Sat Jul 28, 2007 12:37 am

I completely agree with mervyn here.I think that was the best way to summarise the whole discussion,with the appropriate definition,construction and a conclusion.
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chiggs4ever

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PostSubject: Re: Women provoke men!!!!   Thu Aug 02, 2007 9:07 pm

ok.. see it depends on both...
in most of d cases women do provoke men....
n rest we have these horny b******....
but in 60% of the cases women do provoke men.....
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Riju

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PostSubject: Re: Women provoke men!!!!   Fri Aug 03, 2007 10:43 pm

60% ??
wow!!
u have really done a detailed survey on this huh??
mind enlightening all of us by giving ur explaination on this exact figure??.... (i mean the number.. not otherwise cause that might provoke you....)
i am sure all of us would really want to hear ur words of wisdom...
'how' is my question to you, sir.
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adi

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PostSubject: Re: Women provoke men!!!!   Sat Aug 04, 2007 2:04 pm

dude u r in for trouble...
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